Voss, Werner

Voss, Werner

Experiences at Peenemuende on development of the V-2. Work at Nordhausen. Operation Paperclip. Work at Fort Bliss.

University of Alabama in Huntsville Archives and Special Collections, Huntsville, Alabama

1971-08-03

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Interviews

Audio

ohc_crst_000028_A

Christensen, David

Voss, Werner

[00:00:02] David Christensen: This is an interview with Mr. Werner Voss. The date is August 3, 1971.

[00:00:10] DC: If you could, state how you got involved in the rocket business. [inaudible] – ’39, you know.

[00:00:18] Werner Voss: I had been drafted in ‘38. I’m at [Kröslin?]. His name was Günther Lehmann.

[00:00:25] WV: He worked in the sheet metal shops there. He was a bachelor and I've been a bachelor. We talk about a good time. We had the cinemas. [chuckling]

[00:00:35] DC: Sounds like a good place to go!

[00:00:38] WV: At that time, I was employed with the Air Force. And then I decided I should change. I looked over this place. I managed to get an interview there.

[00:00:53] DC: How did you do that? You had the connections to...
[00:00:56] WV: I wrote a letter.

[00:00:58] DC: You wrote a letter?

[00:01:00] WV: To this place. It was Peenemünde Heeresversuchanstalt. Then I got an invitation to show up. I was interviewed by Riedel zwei, or Riedel II.

[00:01:13] DC: Riedel II. Did you know this was a rocket installation?

[00:01:17] WV: At that time, I didn't know what was going on.

[00:01:18] DC: You had no idea what it was?

[00:01:20] WV: It looked interesting; the buildings, the whole layout. [chuckles] Finally, it took several months before I got my transfer. I arrived about the last week in August ‘39.

[00:01:35] DC: So, you went from the Air Force to the Army uniform?

[00:01:38] WV: No, no. I was civilian, actually. After I got discharged. Then I arrived about the last week in August ’39, I finally arrived at Peenemünde.

[00:01:51] DC: Then what happened? Did you go for interviews then to see what you would do?

[00:01:56] WV: It was Riedel II. He hired me then for... at that time, I was hired for this... I don't know exactly who was... Reisig was in charge of that particular facility that I was supposed to be assigned to. For the measuring group.

[00:02:20] DC: More of a telemetry type instrumentation?

[00:02:23] WV: Electric. And then since my clearance wasn't there, they put me in the valve laboratory. And there we started to operate the oscillograph and [get it cleared?]. At that time, we worked on the [German] for airplanes. Small items.

[00:02:46] DC: A little [JKO or J2?] unit on – … What were you doing? Analyzing individual valves to see their operation?

[00:02:54] WV: Take the measurements, analyze them, components… which happened … designed, built, and then tested.

[00:03:02] DC: And this was all done at Peenemünde because it was not available elsewhere to get the...

[00:03:07] WV: The industry was not there and also, I think it was a matter, probably, of security.

[00:03:12] DC: I see, a combination.

[00:03:14] WV: Probably a combination of both.

[00:03:15] DC: These things were designed, built, tested, everything right there on the spot?

[00:03:22] WV: Then they put me in this valve laboratory where Helmut Zoike was in charge at that time. Later on, he was transferred to – I don’t exactly… where it was called at that time. Then Dobrick took over. Then it was decided that the V2 would go in production. Then he was replaced and Lindenmayer took over.

[00:03:59] DC: He was the production coordinator?

[00:04:03] WV: Lindenmayer took over and Dobrick took over. This responsibility was extended from valve testing also to design. It was combined design and testing under one supervision. Then later on production started for the V2 preparation for production. Then Lindenmayer came and he took over and Dobrick was transferred. I think then he went to Riedel II, somewhere on ground equipment, mobile [pronounced like the Alabama City of Mobile] –

[00:04:40] DC: Mobile. [correcting Voss]

[00:04:42] WV: – launch equipment, all these things.

[00:04:43] DC: Did the valve laboratory get involved with not only flight hardware but ground support hardware?

[00:04:50] WV: In the beginning very much, but later on not. It was separate because in the beginning we were very small, early in ‘39, ‘40. As we went on, we supported test and facility and things like that. But later on, they opened their own shop… at their own shop. But for my transfer never happening, I stuck to the valve labs. So, I never reached my final point.

[00:05:22] [muffled audio]

[00:05:26] DC: Oh, really? [slight chuckle] Anyway, you mentioned then you were transferred into the production.

[00:05:36] WV: Well, in ‘43, early after Lindenmayer took over, the problem was to get parts for pre-production series and things like this. And then orders were made out to the industry to build according to our drawings – parts. The intent was to make assembly at Peenemünde.

[00:06:06] DC: So, you'd get the parts and you'd reassemble them.

[00:06:10] WV: In that time, I was assigned, what I did so far, the measuring and electrical design, things like this. I was then transferred for inspection. So, they put me on part inspection. After we found out that we had a 100% reject practically, it was decided then to put people out in the field and get the whole parts made as well as assembly. And of course, we had to put priority for the shipment to the Mittelwerk for production line of the V2.

[00:06:50] DC: What was the problem? The tolerance of the parts?

[00:06:53] WV: Well, it was a tolerance build-up problem. And then also not the precision of what we asked for – we needed.

[00:07:06] DC: It's still not available now?

[00:07:08] WV: It's not available. Maybe a lack of looking the right companies also.

[00:07:13] DC: Your valves stick then? Your parts wouldn't move?

[00:07:17] WV: No, we had to work with cryogenic. We had to have the right tolerances. And if it doesn’t work…

[00:07:23] WV: But at that time the other reject we had the most was tolerances problem. Poor inspection. And you remember it was only 43 – lack of people. It was mostly done with skilled people and things like that. Then later on in around June, at that time Dr. Thiel was in charge of the whole test division or you may call it. At that time in design, he decided then to get the people in the field. At that time, I was sent down to Munich, Bavaria, Austria, and [Czechoslovakia?]. We had then final contacts led to companies.

[00:08:22] DC: You were running all over the country side looking at –

[00:08:25] WV: I had this southern area and I had then with me several other people supporting me. And then this part we had to take care of… supporting Peenemünde and as well as you heard before, to Debe – no, Deg – what was the name you mentioned?

[00:08:52] Unidentified Female Speaker: Degenkolb.

[00:08:53] WV: Degenkolb. He was in charge of production.

[00:08:56] DC: He was the locomotive?

[00:08:58] WV: Yeah. He had his own organization. We had to get people in their station there. We had to report on a number of components to the quality and security of the parts and inspections.

[00:09:15] [recording stops]

[00:09:18] WV: [recording starts again] At that time we had the army inspection, army personnel to clear off the inspections. We had to use them to report on all our problems.

[00:09:28] DC: Did these companies know what they were working on? Were they secret or –

[00:09:31] WV: No. No secrets. They just got the drawing and that sort of thing.

[00:09:36] DC: So, what would you do when you go into a company? You try to explain to them the urgency?

[00:09:41] WV: No, we got our priorities. It's normal. Then we had our support from the local army officers as well as from the party officers.

[00:09:56] DC: How were these companies selected? Did they have capabilities to do this? Was it political selection?

[00:10:02] WV: I think it was more or less like Degenkolb as the main officer, they had some kind of file ready where they know that this company can do something and research. Mainly they also wanted to put out all the different companies in different areas.
[00:10:18] DC: Spread the work around?

[00:10:19] WV: Spread out. We had in general for each component three companies spread over different locations.

[00:10:24] DC: For each component, three companies? How many companies do you recall visiting? Dozens of them all over the place?

[00:10:37] WV: We had 28 components. Some companies made two components or more. I cannot recall the number exactly of companies.

[00:10:51] DC: 70 or 80 companies.

[00:10:53] WV: 28 components. Several people made more than one component. For instance, like [Deckel?] in Munich. [Knott?]. In a [metalwork?] from Munich, they made about three or four types of components.

[00:11:14] DC: These were all production parts?

[00:11:17] WV: Production parts.

[00:11:18] DC: And they were then being assembled at Mittelwerk?

[00:11:20] WV: No. They were assembled as ready to deliver. Then we shipped to Mittelwerk for receiving inspection and for installation. And later on, in ‘40... and this organization was called, later on, Fertigungs aufsicht. That was the official name. Fertigungs aufsicht. And later on, this whole organization was organized under Mr. Lindenberg.

[00:12:00] DC: [mumbling] Lindenberg, yeah, I’ve heard his name.

[00:12:08] WV: My technical supervisor at that time was [Ehrlicher?], yes [Ehrlicher?]. And he was good on [conscripts?] and I was – we were stationed in the Mittlewerk. I think it was early ‘44. I was moved then and had to take over the whole component area for [oscillographs?] [loud popping noises] -people spread out over the country. So earlier, I only took careful look at only [a thousand?] parts and later on I had to take care of everything. We had space in [Kroslin?] – Nordhausen at our offices, then later on we were moved underground. Occupied the office on the outer [war?] It was upstairs not downstairs.

[00:13:01] DC: When did the groups start coming in from Peenemünde then and setting up shop in the Nordhausen area? Did they come through?

[00:13:09] WV: Well, they were already much earlier. And Mittlewerk, really, I think transferred to people like Magnus von Braun. I never belonged to Mittlewerk, always part. Only stationed there as a consistent... I always belonged to Peenemünde. And Erich [Ball?] was used to be there. Dr. Friedrich, he passed away a few years ago. I think I – [popping sounds] recall like other [workers?] of course, there was then like, Rudi Schlidt myself, and other people there from the Fertigungs aufsicht, only stationed there. Because we didn't belong to Mittelwerk.

[00:14:02] DC: When did the system start breaking down? During the bombings I guess, eventually the communication and transportation problems came up?

[00:14:10] WV: No, it was around Easter in ‘45.

[00:14:14] DC: Still going strong.

[00:14:16] WV: Up to that time, in ‘45, we had the full production. Only a few parts were missing. But at Easter I recall that, that was the end.

[00:14:28] DC: That was towards the end?

[00:14:30] WV: We had... the day before Easter we had to destroy all our documents. Or take them up for shipment.

[00:14:39] DC: All production?

[00:14:41] WV: Drawings, all drawings.

[00:14:43] DC: Were any of those eventually brought here or was that only the R&D documents?

[00:14:47] WV: I don't know. The documents. And I left then. I took off.

[00:14:51] DC: You took off, I see. Did you ever go back in to help pick parts out for the...?

[00:14:57] WV: No. I forgot this place, what they called down and... Yeah, Riedel III moved. He took, later, over the design group. He moved and... I think it was... I think it was Leutenberg. [muffled] Yeah. I think it was Leutenberg. And I... after I heard that the troops were close to Mittelwerk, I took off.

[00:15:35] DC: Yeah.

[00:15:36] WV: And then to Leutenberg and that's when the... Riedel III. That was in the last day. The rest of you moved already down to Garmisch-Partenkirchen. And then a day later, it was occupied. It was over for me.

[00:15:53] DC: Yeah. And then did you hear about the Americans wanting to bring people over then. Or later?

[00:16:01] WV: No.

[00:16:02] WV: We... before we were separated, or let's say pulled all apart. then we have been instructed that we should contact people in Munich, Hamburg, wherever you are located. And then I went from... I ended up in Bavaria and then I went back to the north, wasn’t far to Lübeck. Traveling there by Hamburg, you see. And at that time, we were considered war criminals.

[00:16:34] DC: War criminals?

[00:16:37] WV: Everybody worked on the V2 were marked war criminals.

[00:16:41] DC: By the allies, you mean?

[00:16:43] WV: Yeah. So, I didn’t dare to identify myself that I worked at Peenemünde. I always refused because we had an identification card from OKH, that means Oberkommande der Wehrmacht, like the [inaudible]. And then finally in October 1945, the paper announced that the V2 would be accepted as a normal weapon. And I made contact with the contact men in Hamburg.

[00:17:18] DC: You already knew who to contact in Hamburg? Was he one of your coworkers you contacted?

[00:17:24] WV: No, I didn't know him before. It was one of those contact name and addresses we had been given –

[00:17:29] DC: Just a contact man?

[00:17:30] WV: Yeah. Then at the time I learned that Lindenberg was out there in Cuxhaven. There's English people there. And then I contacted there ... [Flein Krüger?], is that the name?

[00:17:49] FS: Yeah.

[00:17:50] WV: I know her. Is she still alive?

[00:17:52] FS: Yeah, she's in Cuxhaven.

[00:17:54] WV: Cuxhaven? She's stuck there.

[00:17:56] DC: Still there. [chuckles]

[00:17:58] WV: And then she informed me what was going on there, and I decided, because I had some differences with Mr. Lindenberg in Nordhausen, I decided not to go there. And then she informed me that there's a place in Bavaria, in Landshut. And I contacted them in Landshut with an address, and I contacted then also Lindenmayer.

[00:18:27] DC: Lindenmayer? He was there then?

[00:18:29] WV: It was about November. And then about January, I was contacted by an Army of the United States Army captain.

[00:18:38] DC: By who?

[00:18:39] WV: Captain of the United States Army.

[00:18:41] DC: You know, who the man was?

[00:18:43] WV: I mean, if you still find him, [a paper’s not out of the question?].

[00:18:46] DC: Did you sign a contract then?

[00:18:48] WV: At that time, I signed a contract for the 1st of July ‘46. I was picked up by a truck with all the belongings, we all brought things with us. And two weeks later I went over to Fort Bliss. My first stop was in Alexandria, Virginia. I stayed about there for five or six weeks.

[00:19:14] DC: What did you do during that period?

[00:19:16] WV: During the six weeks? Oh, nothing.

[00:19:19] DC: Stood around? Relaxed?

[00:19:22] WV: No, it was too hot for me to do anything.

[00:19:26] DC: You caught the train out west?

[00:19:28] WV: Oh no, we went by plane.

[00:19:30] DC: Oh, you did go by plane? Fort Bliss?

[00:19:32] WV: Fort Bliss by Army plane. And this Dr. Thiel.

[00:19:38] DC: Did he go with you then?

[00:19:40] WV: Yeah, that's the other Thiel. This Thiel is now out there on the west coast. What’s his first name? I forgot. Shame.

[00:19:52] DC: We might have it.

[00:19:54] WV: He is now, I think, with TRW. I think he is with TRW.

[00:20:00] FS: Adolf?

[00:20:01] WV: Adolf. We stayed together there in Alexandria.

[00:20:07] DC: Were there many others on the flight with you or just a couple of them?

[00:20:10] WV: Rickhey was with me.

[00:20:12] DC: How many?

[00:20:13] WV: Mr. Rickhey was with me. And I don't like to talk about Rickhey.

[00:20:21] DC: So, when you got to Bliss, what did you do then?

[00:20:24] WV: Then we got assigned first, had to get used to the climate. No air conditioning, it was pretty hot. Then I was assigned in measuring field again, like picked it up where I stopped in ‘43. Mostly I worked in there together with Lindenmayer again, with Zoike, and with Hans Paul.

[00:20:50] DC: Hans Paul? Suppose he was working in the measuring group too.

[00:20:54] WV: He worked at that time on heat transfer problems. I worked with the guy mostly together in that particular area, making models and measuring equipment.

[00:21:06] DC: Did you get involved in the ramjet program then later on?

[00:21:09] WV: I have not been involved yet, or hardly involved in this, I mean directly. Not too much.

[00:21:16] DC: So, mostly just developing instruments?

[00:21:19] WV: Yeah, and just supporting laboratory tests.

[00:21:27] DC: Are you still in that field even now?

[00:21:29] WV: No, I'm now in astrionics.

[00:21:31] DC: Oh really? I didn't know that.

[00:21:33] WV: Two years ago. I have been transferred against my will.

[00:21:40] DC: [recording distorts] – a little story here.

[00:21:45] WV: My hometown is Stettin, and I'm known as a stubborn Pomeranian, called Pommern. And the most interesting thing is that Lindenmayer is from Bavaria, and he's also known as stubborn [Hofstetter?]. And then we got together first on one particular night, Saturday. Oh, on Friday night he asked me to work – to stay over on Saturday and Sunday and work. Get our first five.

[00:22:21] DC: [chuckling] He wanted you to stay over and you wanted to go out for the weekend.

[00:22:25] WV: Well, we both were stubborn, but I won. I went home and [Vaisas?] was in the hospital. And then the interesting part is that he insisted that I go to this stubborn Bavarian. And that was an interesting part because we are known as the [inaudible]. I never would make it down there. But later we found out that Pomeranians are really not that stubborn. Not like the Bavarians. I hope you're not from there, or your parents.

[00:23:03] FS: No. [giggling]

[00:23:08] DC: So, you had the same north-south problems.

[00:23:10] WV: Same relationship. Same thing like you had here. [inaudible]

[00:23:15] WV: In this case, you only know the [?], the Prussians, and the other guys, other people called []?

[00:23:24] [inaudible speech with laughter]

[00:23:30] WV: That's the only part that’s interesting — most interesting part. I had been sent down to a different area, which I hardly know how to deal with. I was scared about my experience.

[00:23:44] WV: The first one was in Bavaria, and then I found out that [inaudible]

[00:23:59] DC: Okay, end of interview with Mr. Voss.

0:24:02